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Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer spoke at a Detroit Economic Club event on Monday.

Whitmer also met with President Donald Trump last week in Washington D.C., trying to ensure that Michigan receives federal help to restore power in northern Michigan after severe ice storms in late March. 

But tariffs, and how Michigan is navigating economic uncertainty, were also a focus at the White House and the DEC event. 

Auto suppliers are concerned that Trump’s tariffs will devastate their businesses, driving up the cost of cars and reducing sales. And this is important in Michigan where the auto industry makes up about 20% of our economy. 

WDET reporter Bre’Anna Tinsley attended the DEC event, held at MotorCity Casino’s Sound Board Theater. She joined The Metro on Tuesday to discuss Whitmer’s remarks. 

Use the media player above to hear the full conversation.

More stories from The Metro on Tuesday, April 15:

• Cutting the ribbon on new affordable housing in Southwest Detroit
• A professor’s thoughts on reforming DEI at universities
• WDET celebrating the life and legacy of Judy Adams at Garden Theater this weekend
• Child amputees from Gaza get treatment, hope in Detroit

Listen to The Metro weekdays from 10 a.m. to noon ET on 101.9 FM and streaming on-demand.

Michigan U.S. Rep. John James is the latest major candidate to enter the state’s gubernatorial race. As a part of the weekly series, MichMash, Gongwer News Service’s Zach Gorchow and Alethia Kasben discuss the Republican candidate’s chance of becoming the next governor of Michigan. They also discuss Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s recent visit with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office.

Then, Glenn Stevens, executive director from MichAuto at the Detroit Regional Chamber, makes a pit stop and talks to the team about the recent tariff news.

Subscribe to MichMash on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, NPR.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode:

• What inspired Congressman John James to run for governor of Michigan
• Whitmer’s Oval Office meeting with Trump
• How the Trump administration tariffs are affecting Michigan’s auto industry

President Trump’s tariffs have affected many industries all over the country and around the world, including in Michigan.

Stevens said that Trump’s 90-day pause on tariffs are good for the economy, but the 25% tariffs on the auto industry that remain have caused a lot of uncertainty.

“The tariffs that are in place of imported vehicles, — imported components, the steel and aluminum tariffs —  those are still in place,” he said. “So we’re still in it in regard to the challenges in our industry.”

Other factors, like changes made during the pandemic and the national focus on growing the electric vehicle market, have also contributed to the volatility facing Michigan’s auto industry, Stevens said. And that can translate to higher prices for consumers.

“If tariffs persist, we are absolutely going to see an increase in vehicle prices. The reason for that is because the input costs stack up to the supply chain as you build the components up to the assembly plant, and a lot of cost is being added to the system,” Stevens said. “That either has to be absorbed by the companies — and that means profits are going to take a hit — or it’s passed along, and I think inevitably we’re going to see it passed along.”

–WDET Digital Editor Jenny Sherman contributed to this report.

More from WDET:

• WATCH: Whitmer delivers policy address in DC, meets with Trump
• Analyst: Trump tariffs mean recession is likely for Michigan, Ontario
• Rep. John James seeks GOP nomination for Michigan governor

WASHINGTON (AP) — Facing a global market meltdown, President Donald Trump on Wednesday abruptly backed off his tariffs on most nations for 90 days even as he further jacked up the tax rate on Chinese imports to 125%.

It was seemingly an attempt to narrow what had been an unprecedented trade war between the U.S. and most of the world to a showdown between the U.S. and China. The S&P 500 stock index jumped 9.5% after the announcement, but the drama over Trump’s tariffs is far from over as the administration prepares to engage in country-by-country negotiations. In the meantime, countries subject to the pause will now be tariffed at 10%.

The president hit pause in the face of intense pressure created by volatile financial markets that had been pushing Trump to reconsider his tariffs, even as some administration officials insisted the his reversal had always been the plan.

As stocks and bonds sold off, voters were watching their retirement savings dwindle and businesses warned of worse than expected sales and rising prices, all a possible gut punch to a country that sent Trump back to the White House last year on the promise of combatting inflation.

The global economy appeared to be in open rebellion against Trump’s tariffs as they took effect early Wednesday, a signal that the U.S. president was not immune from market pressures. By early afternoon, Trump posted on Truth Social that because more than 75 countries had reached out to the U.S. government for trade talks and had not retaliated in meaningful ways, “I have authorized a 90 day PAUSE, and a substantially lowered Reciprocal Tariff during this period, of 10%, also effective immediately.”

Trump later told reporters that he pulled back on many global tariffs — but not on China — because people were “yippy” and “afraid” due to the stock market declines. He added that while he expected to reach deals, “nothing’s over yet.”

The president said he had been monitoring the bond market and that people were “getting a little queasy” as bond prices had fallen and interest rates had increased in a vote of no confidence by investors in Trump’s previous tariff plans.

“The bond market is very tricky,” Trump said. “I was watching it. But if you look at it now, it’s beautiful.”

The president later said he’d been thinking about his tariff pause over the past few days, but he said it “came together early this morning, fairly early this morning.”

Asked why White House aides had been insisting for weeks that the tariffs were not part of a negotiation, Trump said: “A lot of times, it’s not a negotiation until it is.”

The 10% tariff was the baseline rate for most nations that went into effect on Saturday. It’s meaningfully lower than the 20% tariff that Trump had set for goods from the European Union, 24% on imports from Japan and 25% on products from South Korea. Still, 10% represents an increase in the tariffs previously charged by the U.S. government. Canada and Mexico would continue to be tariffed by as much as 25% due to a separate directive by Trump to ostensibly stop fentanyl smuggling.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said that the negotiations with individual countries would be “bespoke,” meaning that the next 90 days would involve talks on a flurry of potential deals. Bessent, a former hedge fund manager, told reporters that the pause was because of other countries seeking talks rather than brutal selloffs in the financial markets, a statement later contradicted by the president.

“The only certainty we can provide is that the U.S. is going to negotiate in good faith, and we assume that our allies will too,” Bessent said.

The treasury secretary said he and Trump “had a long talk on Sunday, and this was his strategy all along” and that the president had “goaded China into a bad position.”

Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick later seemed to contradict the president’s account by saying it was “definitively” not the markets that caused Trump to pause the tariffs, saying that requests by other nations to negotiate prompted the decision.

Prior to the reversal, business executives were warning of a potential recession caused by his policies, some of the top U.S. trading partners were retaliating with their own import taxes and the stock market was quivering after days of decline.

White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said the walk back was part of Trump’s negotiating strategy.

She said the news media “clearly failed to see what President Trump is doing here. You tried to say that the rest of the world would be moved closer to China, when in fact, we’ve seen the opposite effect. The entire world is calling the United States of America, not China, because they need our markets.”

The head of the World Trade Organization, Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, said the trade war between the U.S. and China could “could severely damage the global economic outlook” and warned of “potential fragmentation of global trade along geopolitical lines.”

Market turmoil had been building for weeks ahead of Trump’s move, with the president at times suggesting the import taxes would stay in place while also saying that they could be subject to negotiations.

Particularly worrisome was that U.S. government debt had lost some of its luster with investors, who usually treat Treasury notes as a safe haven when there’s economic turbulence. Government bond prices had been falling, pushing up the interest rate on the 10-year U.S. Treasury note to 4.45%. That rate eased after Trump’s reversal.

Gennadiy Goldberg, head of U.S. rates strategy at TD Securities, said before the announcement that markets wanted to see a truce in the trade disputes.

“Markets more broadly, not just the Treasury market, are looking for signs that a trade de-escalation is coming,” he said. “Absent any de-escalation, it’s going to be difficult for markets to stabilize.”

John Canavan, lead analyst at the consultancy Oxford Economics, noted that while Trump said he changed course due to possible negotiations, he had previously indicated that the tariffs would stay in place.

“There have been very mixed messages on whether there would be negotiations,” Canavan said. “Given what’s been going on with the markets, he realized the safest thing to do is negotiate and put things on pause.”

The whipsaw-like nature of Wednesday could be seen in the social media posts of Bill Ackman, a hedge fund billionaire and Trump supporter.

“Our stock market is down,” Ackman posted on X. “Bond yields are up and the dollar is declining. These are not the markers of successful policy.”

Ackman repeated his call for a 90-day pause in the post. When Trump embraced that idea several hours later, an ebullient Ackman posted that Trump had “brilliantly executed” his plan and it was “Textbook, Art of the Deal,” a reference to Trump’s bestselling 1987 book.

Presidents often receive undue credit or blame for the state of the U.S. economy as their time in the White House is subject to financial and geopolitical forces beyond their direct control.

But by unilaterally imposing tariffs, Trump has exerted extraordinary influence over the flow of commerce, creating political risks and pulling the market in different directions based on his remarks and social media posts. There still appear to be 25% tariffs on autos, steel and aluminum, with more imports, including pharmaceutical drugs, set to be tariffed in the weeks ahead.

The tariffs frenzy of recent weeks has taken its toll on businesses and individuals alike.

On CNBC, Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian said the administration was being less strategic than it was during Trump’s first term. His company had in January projected it would have its best financial year in history, only to scrap its expectations for 2025 due to the economic uncertainty.

“Trying to do it all at the same time has created chaos in terms of being able to make plans,” he said, noting that demand for air travel has weakened.

Before Trump’s reversal, economic forecasters said his second term has had a series of negative and cascading impacts that could put the country into a downturn.

“Simultaneous shocks to consumer sentiment, corporate confidence, trade, financial markets as well as to prices, new orders and the labor market will tip the economy into recession in the current quarter,” said Joe Brusuelas, chief economist at the consultancy RSM.

Bessent has previously said it could take months to strike deals with countries on tariff rates. But in a Wednesday morning appearance on “Mornings with Maria,” Bessent said the economy would “be back to firing on all cylinders” at a point in the “not too distant future.”

He said there has been an “overwhelming” response by “the countries who want to come and sit at the table rather than escalate.” Bessent mentioned Japan, South Korea, and India. “I will note that they are all around China. We have Vietnam coming today,” he said.

Reporting by Josh Boak, Associated Press. Associated Press writer Michelle L. Price contributed.

President Donald Trump’s flurry of tariffs is already forcing changes in the auto industry.

Stellantis is temporarily stopping production at some factories in Windsor, Ontario and in Mexico while laying-off workers in Michigan and Indiana.

It’s also offering discount pricing for customers. So is Ford Motor Company.

Some foreign automakers vow not to raise their prices either, for now.

But financial experts still predict a big hike coming in the cost of a vehicle after a tariff on imported auto parts takes effect in May.

The upheaval concerns Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, who spent more than three decades in the car business.

Dingell told WDET that she believes tariffs can be useful, but Congress may still try to revoke Trump’s authority to levy them.

Listen: Dingell talks tariffs, unions, NAFTA and where Trump is going wrong

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

U.S. Rep. Debbie Dingell: I think tariffs are a tool in the toolbox so that we are competing on a level playing field with China, who subsidizes production, owns the companies and doesn’t pay a decent wage. But what’s been done the last couple of weeks has just created chaos. It’s impacting the economy. I’ve talked to multiple lawyers who are still trying to interpret what was announced for Canada and Mexico and the impact on the auto industry. We’ve seen what the market has done. We need an industrial policy that brings manufacturing back to this country. Not only do I want to see the auto plants here but we have a steel issue that’s a national security issue as much as it is an economic security issue. And when you talk about pharmaceuticals, 80% to 90% of the drugs that we need are made in China and India. We need to bring that production home. But we have to have an integrated policy that incentivizes that. And you can’t do it overnight. If everything goes totally right, and when is the last time anything went totally right, it takes 2.5 to 3 years to build a new plant. So I’m concerned about how this is being done. I will work with anyone to bring manufacturing back here, to have a level playing field, but you’ve got to do it in a way that doesn’t create chaos.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: Automakers often seem to treat the U.S., Mexico and Canada as one big country. They have parts go back and forth across the borders repeatedly. In your view, should the auto tariffs treat Canada and/or Mexico differently than they would China or some other country?

DD: I think NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was one of the worst pieces of trade legislation because it did take our plants away. Many of them were relocated to Mexico. They left cities devastated. And a Mexican worker is making $3 while a worker in this country is making $30 an hour. And I think that’s a fair wage. When the president was in his first term I worked with his administration when they renegotiated. They got rid of NAFTA. They negotiated the USMCA, the U.S., Mexico and Canada trade relationship. And the auto companies are operating under that agreement. I do believe that we need to renegotiate USMCA, because it allows China to put a plant in Mexico and then market it as a North America product.

QK: Some of the people who have praised tariffs as a good thing have been somewhat surprising to those that follow politics. For instance, the president of the United Auto Workers Union, Shawn Fain, was a pretty vocal critic of President Trump during the most recent campaign. But he has endorsed the new auto tariffs as a good way to try to keep jobs in the U.S. or increase U.S. manufacturing. Does it surprise you that organized labor would come out in that fashion?

DD: I think that organized labor is more where I am in that they think tariffs are a useful tool in the toolbox. There needs to be a strategy and people don’t understand what the strategy is. But I told people in 2016 Donald Trump was going to win, and everybody thought I was crazy — I wasn’t — because he understood how workers felt about seeing their jobs shipped overseas. How could they compete when there’s not a level playing field and workers were being paid such low wages in Mexico, they weren’t making a living wage. By the way, I think Canada and Mexico are two different countries and I think it’s time to treat them as such. Canada would never let China build a plant in Canada and market it as a North American vehicle. But I’m not surprised by union support for tariffs because workers are the ones who have felt the pain. But it’s the way this is being done. I go in the union halls and workers are glad to see somebody fighting for them. But they are also worried about increased costs. So it’s got to be done the right way, strategically. You can’t do it overnight and it can’t be done chaotically.

QK: Do you have any concerns that, as some analysts predict, tariffs overall could push the U.S. economy back into a recession?

DD: I think we have to be very careful. I think everybody’s concerned when you see what the market has done. And I want to see our economy strong, I want to see it thrive. I want to see jobs come back to this country. And I hear the economic concerns of workers who are worried about the grocery prices, worried about whether they can afford their home. And quite frankly, workers want to know their job is safe.

QK: The president had the power to start levying these tariffs because he declared a national economic emergency when he took office. Congress can revoke that authority. The U.S. Senate recently took what was in some ways a symbolic vote to do that, at least in regards to Canadian tariffs. But the House can’t really follow suit because of a procedural maneuver that was used by the speaker of the House. Is that kind of the end of Congress’ options regarding tariffs or is there any more that could be done?

DD: I think that you will be seeing further action in the House in the next couple of weeks to do something similar to what was done in the Senate. Stay tuned.

The heads of the Detroit Regional Chamber and the trade association MichAuto are just two of the many business leaders requesting a pause to tariffs.

They sent a letter last week asking the White House to avoid tariffs on auto parts and vehicles and instead renegotiate the free trade agreement between the U.S., Mexico and Canada (USMCA.)

The administration enacted the auto tariffs anyway.

Now MichAuto Executive Director Glenn Stevens Jr. says price hikes are both inevitable and potentially damaging to Michigan’s economy.

Listen: Auto advocates want Trump to hit the brakes on tariffs

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length. Listen to the full conversation above.

Glenn Stevens, Jr., MichAuto: (Interview edited for clarity.) When we look at the impact of the tariff stack that’s going on, and there are multiple tariffs that have been applied so far, we’re concerned about the rise in the input costs to the suppliers of all sizes, the vehicle manufacturers across Detroit and all of Michigan. The second thing we’re concerned about is how these costs stack up. The overall selling price of a new vehicle, which is already at a near record, is $49,000 a year. So any impact on that selling price, we’re concerned about what that does to market demand. It has a negative impact if that demand is not strong. And we really would like to see the USMCA trade agreement reopened, as is called for in 2026. But we hope that the president will continue to evaluate goods going between our three countries.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: The president has argued that these tariffs are a way to try to force, in effect, manufacturing back to the U.S. Do you see that as a possibility if these tariffs continue forward, or do you think they’re going to have some counterproductive effect?

GS: No one would argue, and we certainly wouldn’t, that increasing manufacturing in Detroit and Michigan in the United States is a bad thing. No one would argue that improving our border security against illegal drugs and illegal immigration is a bad thing. However, it takes significant time to make these changes, years, not months, in the case of moving assembly plants. So that’s one thing. The second thing is we have to remain globally competitive and we have a supply chain that already works between our three countries. Does it need to be improved? Yes, that’s why reopening and renegotiating the USMCA would be a good way to go. So there are some concerns, but there are opportunities. And yes, eventually over time, if those decisions are made, we could see increased production in the United States, which would not be a bad thing at all.

QK: Mexico and Canada and the U.S. have operated essentially like one big country for the auto industry. They regularly have parts going back and forth over the border. Now the president may not only be trying to force more manufacturing to the U.S., but he’s also causing some countries to levy reciprocal tariffs.

GS: In the case of Michigan and Ontario, we operate seamlessly. This is a 120-year-old industry between our two regions, Ontario and Michigan, let alone the whole Great Lakes region and really North America. Unraveling that supply chain is costly, disruptive and will cost jobs on both sides of the border. Again I stress that we would like to see the tool that we have at hand, the USMCA, to be reopened and renegotiated. And out of that can come more manufacturing, but it also can keep a trade block that works intact for the U.S. auto industry to be globally competitive.

QK: Do you see any upside in the near future in regards to these tariffs, whatever happens in the long run?

GS: I’m a pretty positive, upbeat, glass-half-full person. But there’s not a lot of positives and goods we’re seeing today. If I look at the stock market, at companies which are paralyzed and I look at us, really, in a trade war with our friends and neighbors literally across the Detroit River, I’m not seeing a lot positive in the short term. That’s pretty clear today.

QK: You and the president of the Detroit Regional Chamber recently sent a letter to the White House and other lawmakers arguing your point. If it falls on deaf ears, so to speak, what other recourse do you see that the auto industry might have to try to enact some changes to what’s currently in place?

GS: We’re going to keep communicating with the White House, with our congressional delegation. That letter was also sent to all the members, Republican and Democrat, in the Michigan federal delegation to Washington. We work closely with other companies, other organizations, other trade associations, and we’re all in this together to communicate the importance of the industry and its complexity. But if these tariffs continue, the industry is going to have to make some tough, long-term decisions. We’re going to have to help mitigate that and hopefully we don’t see employment loss, we don’t see companies leave, we don’t see companies financially under duress. I stressed before how important it is for Michigan and the entire region, which includes Ontario and our Great Lakes states and North America as a whole, to be globally competitive. We have a Chinese auto industry that did not exist just a few short years ago that is really expanding globally and is really competitive from a cost, quality and design and engineering standpoint. We can’t isolate ourselves from the world and ignore the fact that Chinese industry is growing. We have to be able to compete with it. And unraveling a trade block and supply chain that works very efficiently is not the direction we should be going in. We should be looking at how we can be more competitive?

QK: In your view, what would make it more competitive?

GS: We talk about this every day. Unfortunately, we had to take our eye off the ball a little bit the last couple months. But the industry is looking at how do we make our plants more efficient? How do we make our people more prepared for the digital skills needed? There will be more automation, but that’s not eliminating jobs as much as it is providing new opportunities for good jobs to interact and program and repair and maintain that automation. We have to look at how do we be more competitive with the technologies at hand, including things like AI? That’s what we want to focus on, that’s what we’re going to have to do together as a partnership between government, labor and industry. That’s really what we want to get back to.

Stock markets worldwide are careening even lower Friday after China matched President Donald Trump’s big raise in tariffs in an escalating trade war.

Not even a better-than-expected report on the U.S. job market, which is usually the economic highlight of each month, was enough to stop the slide.

Trump’s 25% tariff on imported vehicles — which the administration says will help foster domestic manufacturing — is likely to both drive up auto prices and force automakers that rely on global supply chains to rethink what and where vehicles are being made.

Stellantis has already laid off 900 workers at plants in Michigan and Indiana after pausing production at some of its assembly plants in Mexico and Canada.

Patrick Anderson, CEO of East Lansing-based Anderson Economic Group, told WDET that he thinks Trump’s tariffs will cause Michigan’s economy to tank. 

“For the lowest tariff cost vehicles we expect prices to go up somewhere between $2,500 and $5,000 per car,” Anderson said. “For a lot of mid-priced cars (it will go up) $5,000, $8,000, $10,000.”

Anderson said Michigan’s close ties to the auto industry are a good thing. However, it also makes us more vulnerable to recessions.

“Also, in this case, (more vulnerable to) a huge U-turn in terms of trade policy,” he added. “(Now) that’s being undertaken by the Trump administration, which has very negative effects on our ability to build cars and sell cars here in Michigan and in other states.”

As long as the tariffs are in place, he says it’s not likely to get better.

“I don’t see any upside to higher tariffs for states like Michigan any time in the next…year,” Anderson said. “You might get some production to move to some plants, but you’re already seeing — and this is just in days — reductions in employment.”

The cratering stock market — in addition to the tariffs — feeds into itself and makes things even worse.

“You’re seeing a huge toll on people’s retirement savings that affects whether or not they’re going to buy cars,” Anderson said.

And if higher prices lead to a drop in sales and manufacturing, the state and region will drop into an avoidable collapse, he said.

“Because you can’t take this much of a, really a baseball bat to auto sales, if that’s your leading industry, and not expect there to be employment losses.”

Auto companies are also navigating the reversal of fuel economy standards, dialed down greenhouse gas emission standards and a host of electric vehicle policy rollbacks.

Associated Press writers Stan Choe, Alexa St. John and Paul Wiseman contributed to this report.

President Trump is threatening to raise tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber to 27 percent as soon as this week.

The move could impact everything in the U.S. from lumber needed to build affordable housing to wood chips used to make toilet paper.

Trump says his administration would compensate by harvesting more trees from national forests, which includes several in Michigan.

But some experts say it’s not that simple.

The Michigan Sustainable Forestry Initiative’s Jesse Randall says the issue goes beyond how many trees are available in the state or the nation.

Listen: Trump tariffs on Canada lumber could chop U.S. wood supplies

Jesse Randall: Michigan sits kind of at the forefront of very high-valued timber. And we utilize it in a sustainable manner. I think the material that the president is looking at in terms of tariffs is really going to affect our partners in the Pacific Northwest and down South. I know of one Michigan producer who says they haven’t seen any major uptick because of these proposed tariffs yet.

I think tariffs are a double-edged sword. Our mills and our operators are constantly needing to procure and maintain equipment. So I think that will cost them more money, tariffs or anything that will shut down a supply coming in that is used for construction.

We’re really facing now the start of that spring building period. I think that will add extra pressure to it. And I think you might see, at least initially, some speculative up-buying where people are trying to lock in what they’re going to need for the near term, not knowing what the tariffs will do or if they will be in place for very long.

Some of these larger companies are diversified across the border. I do know that some shipments were held up, they cost a little bit more to get into the country. I believe that’s going to be a blip on the radar and it’ll work itself out.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: Why do you think it’ll be just a blip on the radar?

JR: I think our U.S. mills have already begun to adjust to the possibility. I think they’ve already started to look at their procurement side of the equation and say, “If tariffs do come in and we get raw material from across the border, where will we have to source that from instead? Who are our major players on the procurement side?” I think what the proposed tariff has done is really sped up those conversations inside U.S. producers. “Who are we going to have new contracts with? How flexible are those contracts to ramp up?”

Frankly, right now, I see us having a bigger problem than running out of material. We’re going to run out of Qualified Logging Professionals (QLPs) to harvest the material. Within this country, we have an aging demographic in the forest products industry. Not a lot of folks are going into that profession. It’s a lot like agriculture, it’s getting older and they’re becoming more mechanized. But there’s still a level of retirement that is not being replaced with new logging professionals.

What’s scary to me is if these mills immediately call for more material coming from our woods, which we do have in Michigan, they won’t have people to harvest that wood, they won’t have people to haul that wood. That’s what we’re faced with.

We have 1,000 QLPs. That’s not enough to meet the demand that these mills would have if they ran wide open seven days a week. They don’t have the manpower.

QK: One of the things the Trump administration argues in favor of tariffs is that they will cause production to be based more in the U.S. Are you concerned primarily that there is just not enough qualified professionals here at the moment in the lumber business? Or are there other factors you worry about, if it was going to be mainly a U.S.-based timber industry, as opposed to using lumber from Canada?

JR: The cost of entry into this. The equipment is incredibly expensive. Interest rates have risen to the point where the machinery has gotten out of direct reach for a lot of new people to get into. It’s a lot like agriculture. I would have loved as a young adult to have gotten into either forestry or agriculture. But you need to almost be born into an agricultural family that has an established business to be your own producer. It’s very hard for a new person to break in and pay for this equipment and make go of it.

Now, if there’s increased demand and there’s a lack of QLPs, supply and demand laws tell us that the price per unit goes up. Perhaps that will attract more new people to go out and get the loans to begin to start their own businesses.

But there’s another factor. We’ve also had a lot of natural disasters natiowide. And our Michigan QLPs and our trucking professionals are sought-after talent when natural disasters strike. We have a lot of QLPs and haulers that have been put under contract to go and respond to the storms down South and out in the central U.S.

QK: To get rid of fallen trees and the like?

JR: Correct. We saw a lot of that in North Carolina. And our QLPs had gotten these federal contracts to go out and really help those individual states after hurricanes and tornadoes. That all has to be cleaned up by somebody that knows what they’re doing, that has the right equipment. And those contracts aren’t one or two months. Those contracts are six to nine months. That effectively takes them out of Michigan for the better part of the harvest year. You don’t replace that equipment and that level of knowledge overnight. I can’t take a young person who is fresh out of high school or college and put them on a machine and have them be safe and productive. It takes years to develop those skills. And, right now, we have a loss of talent.