If it feels like everyone you know is stressed about money right now, the numbers back you up. This spring, U.S. consumer confidence fell to its lowest level ever, dragged down by gas prices and tariffs. Here in metro Detroit, unemployment is running nearly a point above the national rate, and small business owners are gloomy — just 28% think the economy is in good health.

So here’s the puzzle: At the same time, Michiganders are starting businesses at a furious pace — more than 40,000 new business applications in the first three months of this year, up 25% from a year ago. People say the economy scares them, yet they are betting on themselves anyway.

Mark Lee has spent his career advising small businesses across southeast Michigan, and he started his own company in January 2008, right as the last recession hit. He joined Robyn Vincent on The Metro to discuss if these new business owners are jumping or being pushed.

Hear the full conversation using the media player above.

Listen to The Metro weekdays from 10 a.m. to noon ET on 101.9 FM and stream on-demand.

Never miss an episode — subscribe to The Metro on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, NPR, or wherever you get your podcasts.

More stories from The Metro